If you find pages with any of the problems discussed here, please amend the English page. If you are not able to do that, leave a message for the admin team.


Thread titleRepliesLast modified
How to deal with definition lists?421:16, 9 July 2015
Translation memory208:28, 20 November 2012
Has fuzzybot gone mad?2016:22, 19 August 2012
translate this page?003:30, 11 July 2011
Digikam/Tutorials translated pages problem416:25, 7 June 2011
Default language313:31, 7 June 2011
Red links413:28, 7 June 2011
Summary of Bullet Lists discussion808:21, 4 June 2011
Question marks in page names306:45, 23 May 2011
Category KDE3309:14, 27 April 2011
How far back to translate?309:36, 8 February 2011
Problems with redirected pages910:22, 16 January 2011
Unusual formatting on K3b page109:49, 16 January 2011
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How to deal with definition lists?

Hi, I have been using definition lists for listing off functionality in menus.

Definition lists, as you may know, kinda look like this:


in wiki terms that's this:

;Definition :Description

And then mediawiki generates the html definition list, as officially described(

<dl> <dt>definition</dt> <dd>description</dd> </dl>

Now, apparently, and this is not uncommon with html, people have abused ':' for indenting. Which is why I am supposed to remove them. Which in turn screws up the definition lists, and that makes for wonky html, which is sad.

If indenting is the problem, is there a way I can convince you to just remove the indent-styling from <dd> marked paragraphs? Or at the least give an official typography entry for handling definition lists?

13:32, 5 July 2015

I am not quite sure what you are referring to here: Off the top of my head I would think, that making description lists the way you describe is perfectly ok. Mind you, we do have a lot of detailed "rules" that have evolved over time, mostly to ensure that the the pages can be translated properly.

Could you provide a link to the page you are working on - it is often easier to comment on formatting problems in the actual context.

10:52, 6 July 2015

I use it all over the Krita manual, but here's a good example:

This is the page that tells me not to use them: , it's the last bullit point of 'correcting old markup'.

17:41, 8 July 2015

I had completely forgotten about that particuar issue. I don't think this was ever meant to refer to definition lists - only to colons used on their own; or maybe it was solved with the neverland theme that we use now.

I had a look at your page. I looks fine in my browsers, so there is no reason not to continue using this markup. I'll try to find a better formulation on the Edit_Markup page to clarify (or maybe just remove the offending bullet). Thanks for pointing this out.

07:53, 9 July 2015

Great! I am glad I asked then :)

21:16, 9 July 2015

Translation memory

It would be great if somebody can turn the translation extension translation memory off. The current version makes the online translation absolutely impossible: it makes the server stuck and constantly shows error messages about timed-out operations.


14:06, 18 November 2012

I just encountered this problem in a single message. Now I can translate. :-)

Try again?

19:03, 19 November 2012

You shouldn't encounter it again. It is a Mediawiki bug, so we've disabled TM until the bug is fixed.

08:28, 20 November 2012

Has fuzzybot gone mad?

On april 3 An_introduction_to_KDE was updated and fuzzybot stepped into action. However, instead of marking the affected section as fuzzy, it reverted the Danish translation to an ancient version (dating from before the translation system) and didn't mark the page as fuzzy - I only discovered the problem by accident. Fortunately all the links on the page were made invalid and lit up in bright red. The German page showes a similar problem; I haven't looked at the other translations, but it seems likely that they are also affected.

I hope this is an isolated insident, but we need to be on our guard until we know what going on.

08:09, 6 April 2011

Here we can see that was before many small sections is now one big section that retook the section identifier 8. Here you can see that it replaced those small sections with one big section 8 which at some point in the history contained the old translations of that whole big section.

09:05, 6 April 2011

In that case, I'm to blame - at least in part. Yecril97pl made changes to that page, then complained that links were broken because they were across sections (I can't remember the exact details). Since a bullet list doesn't need additional space, I removed the additional lines, but marked it as not affecting translations. The idea was that translators could pick it up when doing something more significant, but it would only be making work to do it separately. Sorry it caused a problem - I don't really understand what's happening with regard to the old translations. Perhaps if Nikerabbit can explain that, I can avoid it in future.

11:41, 6 April 2011

If I understand this correctly, unit T8 is an old translation unit that has been removed long ago, so its contents is outdated. If so, we need to remove that unit-nr and reinstate the units from before Yecril97pl's changes, otherwise the recent translations with the proper links will be lost from translations. If Yecril97pl for some reason added unit-nr T8, that would explain why links suddenly failed.

At least it appears that fuzzybot has not gone mad after all, which is a great relief.

15:50, 6 April 2011

I never touched unit numbers. I only complained that the translation tags should not span sections.

15:33, 7 April 2011

Yes, I see that unit T8 was in the source all the time. It seems, however, that beeing placed between </ translate> and < translate> tags, it was "disabled". Following the various edits it must have somehow ended up beeing activated, causing ancient content to be inserted in the translated pages.

If this is correct then we should probably remove the T8 unit tag so that this kind of problem will not hit us again.

07:55, 8 April 2011

Can these meaningless changes be reverted? They do anything but harm and useless noise, imho.

This kind of formatting is inconsistent with the rest of the wiki and is very hard to be changed according to my language rules for this kind of texts.

16:15, 6 April 2011

I will attempt to track down all similar edits today and revert them.

10:14, 7 April 2011

An introduction to KDE/uk still shows my layout. What is wrong with it?

15:37, 7 April 2011

Yes it is. After 5 or more tries to do this. It is hard to change this beautiful layout. Can you stop changing the layouts as you like? Thanks.

16:48, 7 April 2011

Yurchor, are you saying that we should avoid using ";" for formatting all together or are you simply saying don't change formatting unless it is actually broken? If the first is the case we need to add something about that on the Toolbox page. We do have a few pages, that use ";" formatting. Should we change those as we find them?

08:42, 8 April 2011

";" is good for anything but docs, imho. But I cannot understand when things that are not broken in any kind are changed just because someone likes something to be constantly changed. There are many not-so-popular pages (even without translations) to experiment with them.

10:12, 8 April 2011

The exact details are on the talk page.

15:29, 7 April 2011

translate this page?

I think we could open this page to translation since other similar pages are open to be translated. Idea?

03:30, 11 July 2011

Digikam/Tutorials translated pages problem

Please take a look at Digikam/Tutorials. After the re-organization the translated pages show at the beginning the old English messages followed by the new translated ones.

14:12, 7 June 2011

Was there an existing Italian translation? If not, it's Special:myLanguage doing its thing. This is a temporary situation, to help translators do a quick job of reorganising the page. Cut and paste from the old translation, instead of having to carefully translate. There is only Danish and Ukrainian to be done, after which the old stuff can be deleted from all the pages. I'd expect that to be done within the next few days. Hope that makes sense to you. The reorganisation is big, so we were trying to help cut down work.

15:47, 7 June 2011

Hi, thanks for the answer. It affects all the translated pages. The reorganization is now completed as you can see here

16:21, 7 June 2011

You have to do zero edit. Just add a space, then remove it, save the page, and everything will be right. ;)

16:21, 7 June 2011

It works! Very strange however. I keep it in mind for the next time. Thanks :)

16:25, 7 June 2011

Default language

My browser identification:

Opera/9.80 (X11; Linux i686; U; uk) Presto/2.8.131 Version/11.11

But when I open UserBase pages from anonymous user (with removed cookies) it shows me the pages in Belorussian (be). Can it be fixed?

03:39, 7 June 2011
Edited by 0 users.
Last edit: 10:23, 7 June 2011

I've asked Nikerabbit to look at this

10:23, 7 June 2011

Check what you browser sends in it's Accept-Language headers.

12:07, 7 June 2011

Ah, yes, sorry for the panic. ;) Thanks for your advice.

13:31, 7 June 2011

And I thought I was being so clever, when we talked about making special:myLannguage links to non-existant pages red! I shoud have realized that this would not play well with translated pages. Links to untranslated pages now leads nowhere, rather than to the equivalent english page. Can we solve that while keeping the red link behaviour, when no english page exists? If not, it is probably best to revert to the old ways :-(

20:16, 6 June 2011

+1 This new behavior is just like remove Special:myLanguage at all.

03:33, 7 June 2011
Edited by 0 users.
Last edit: 10:21, 7 June 2011

Will get Nikerabbit to look at this

10:21, 7 June 2011

Works for me. Please give examples and detailed steps so that I do not have to hunt for them.

12:10, 7 June 2011

The good news is I was wrong! I seem to have accidentally put in space characters around a backslash, so the link was wrong the whole time, I just never saw it before - because of the old Special:myLanguage behaviour the link used to show up blue. This actually confirms that the changed you made at the sprint was a really Good Thing(tm).

I do feel stupid, though, not to have investigated the problem a bit before complaining. Sorry about that.

13:28, 7 June 2011

Summary of Bullet Lists discussion

Sometimes an author splits a bullet list with an empty line to make it more readable. This is disastrous for the translated pages. If you meet this, please correct the English page which will cause the re-marking for translation.

15:50, 30 September 2010

I strongly agree. In fact, anything enclosed between some sort of brackets should be kept in one unit, i.e. without blank line in the middle. If for some reason such content must have blank lines, and so be divided in two units, please balance brackets in each unit by adding matching brackets in a comment, as fx

[[ <!--]]--> ...

with similar comments for other kinds of brackets. Unbalanced brackets (including ordinary parentheses) creates lots of problems for translators.

I was wondering, by the way, if a

<br />

could replace a completely blank line in case it really is needed?

16:36, 30 September 2010

I have added a section to your Build page. Please let me know whether it works.

12:50, 2 October 2010

It works! the lines before and after the <br /> appear in the same translation unit.

19:15, 2 October 2010

I have added a section to Typographical_Guidelines. Please check that the instruction is clear and amend if necessary.

10:43, 3 October 2010

I think it is very clear. I added two sections on keeping units together and on balancing brackets. Do they belong there?

05:49, 4 October 2010
Edited by another user.
Last edit: 08:20, 4 June 2011

Might they be better in Edit Markup? While we want to avoid duplicating sections (maintenance, etc.), a link between Typographical_Guidelines and EditMarkup would be sensible. Can I leave you to deal with this? Thanks

07:29, 4 October 2010
Edited by author.
Last edit: 08:21, 4 June 2011

I'm sorry, but Edit Markup is protected, so I can't edit it.

14:13, 4 October 2010

Oops - I forgot that we marked the Help pages as protected. I've done the edit. Sorry.

18:05, 4 October 2010

Question marks in page names

When translating the page Kdevelop4/Manual/What is KDevelop? I encountered a problem with the name of the .po file: Downloading the page gave me a file whoes name had been truncated at the question mark, i.e. the downloaded file was named "page|KDevelop4/Manual/What is KDevelop" with "?_da.po" having been thrown away. Now, this is easily remedied; however, uploading the file after translation turned out to be difficult. When I tried to upload it to Special:ImportTranslations the name was again truncated, and this time I couldn't just add the missing postfix - the relevant field is not editable.

It seems, that this is a Firefox problem. At least I managed to upload the .po file without problems using Konqueror. However, with many distros using Firefox as their standard browser, this may cause problems.

Is it possible to remove punctuation signs from the names of .po files or must they match the page name exactly? And if they must, should we avoid punctuation in page names?

09:33, 20 May 2011

I think this may have to wait until the sprint, when we can discuss it with Nikerabbit.

18:07, 21 May 2011

There is no hurry. I know only of this one example. Do you know if many translators download the po-files? If so, it might be a good idea for me to temporarily add a warning to the English page. Ideally it would of course be better to have such text in the Talk page, but I don't think it will be much help there - most likely, translators won't think to consult the Talk page for such information.

07:26, 22 May 2011

Nikerabbit says that the question mark shouldn't be a problem, so we will need to look at that, at the sprint.

06:45, 23 May 2011

Category KDE3

Recently the {{KDE3}} template was modified to include code, that automatically adds [[Category:KDE3]] to the page. This has two consequences that may have been unintentional:

First, the {{KDE3}} template is used on some pages that was not previously in the KDE3 category, for example to mark a section that refers specifically to KDE3 in a page about a KDE 4 application.

The other thing is that previously each language had its own version of the KDE3 category (KDE3/da, KDE3/de and so on). With the new system all the translated pages will end up in the same KDE3 category.

09:38, 24 April 2011

The first doesn't worry me at all. If there is KDE 3 content on a page, it should be in that category, to draw my attention to the fact that it will eventually need editing out. That's the whole purpose of the category - to enable us to find material that needs deleting or editing, when the time is appropriate.

Actually, I'm not sure that the second one matters either, as the KDE3 category is a hidden category, intended for administrative use only. It probably doesn't help to have localised versions of that. When the English page gets edited the translators will automatically get the changes in the normal way.

10:36, 24 April 2011

Perhaps we should start removing [[Category:KDE3]] markup as we come across them. (We would first need to make sure, that those pages have the {{KDE3}} somewhere). Or do those explicit category markups still serve a purpose?

19:40, 25 April 2011

The template was intended from the start to put those pages into the category, but it didn't work. Now it does work we should remove the manual ones as we come across them, but they do no harm if they are around for a while. They don't cause the page to appear twice, for instance.

09:14, 27 April 2011

How far back to translate?

It is suggested that versions of pages such as the Plasma/FAQ earlier than KDE 4.4 are probably not worth translating - since few people will still be using them. Thoughts?

15:03, 7 February 2011


16:00, 7 February 2011

It makes good sense. However, in that case I think we should remove links to them and either remove them completely or only link to them through a page of old and unmaintained pages.

05:54, 8 February 2011

We are experimenting with the possibility of using an Archive namespace, but ran into a problem. Hopefully this will be possible soon. If it's not fixed before then we should tackle it at the WebWorld2011 sprint.

09:36, 8 February 2011

Problems with redirected pages

Page redirection does not work with the translation system! See for example the first two links in Plasma#Further information: Plasma/FAQ redirects to Plasma/FAQ/4.4. However, for the Special:myLanguage 'trick' to work we would need a Plasma/FAQ/da redirect to Plasma/FAQ/4.4/da and so on for each translation. (I assume this would work.)

This kind of solution does not seem to be maintainable. I don't see any solution to this problem that is both maintainable and elegant, so I propose a simple, maintainable but not very elegant solution:

Create an actual Plasma/FAQ page containing only links to the various versions of the FAQ. That way, when a new version of the FAQ is created, we just add a link to it here. Of course this link page should be translated. (Perhaps it would be easier to create a new Plasma/FAQ/Index page and change all links to Plasma/FAQ to this page?)

10:11, 23 December 2010

Do you have time to do a similar job on KAddressBook please?

16:17, 12 January 2011

I'll have a look at it.

05:50, 13 January 2011

The deed is done. I created KAddressBook/index with the links.

I have also changed alle the links to KAddressBook that I could find to this page. That was a bit hit and miss, though. Special:WhatLinksHere gave no usefull information and the search box just took me to the page KAddressBook_4.4, so I manually went through the pages I could think of (Applications/Office as well as KOrganizer and its subpages and links found in these). It is likely that I didn't find all links.

In the process of doing this I came across a problem in the page Akonadi 4.4/Troubleshooting. It contained many multiline input and output displays that didn't show properly: only the first line of the display was put in the box, the rest appeared below as ordinary lines. The problem was caused by preceeding the templates with one or more colons for indentation. I removed the colons, so the page displays properly now.

20:37, 13 January 2011

Thanks. I've seen the work and marked it as ready for translation. The problem with the multiple colons is known. Apparently when the system has to translate the wiki markup into html for display it hits this problem. Our solution is to add some indent to the style for bullets, and where more is needed a single colon can be added. Any instances of more than one colon should be cut down to a single one if really necessary, just as you have done, whenever we come across them.

Thanks for the work

14:05, 14 January 2011

The problem I was talking about is related but distinct. It concerns the Input and Output templates. With those there can't even be a single colon, since then lines other than the first end up outside of the box. If you write

{{Input|1=1. line
2. line}}

you get

1. line
2. line

but precede it with a single colon like this

:{{Input|1=1. line
2. line}}

and you get

1. line

2. line

08:25, 15 January 2011

Unusual formatting on K3b page

It seems that some authors prefer to format the pages as they like, using some entities (like &emsp;, &mdash;, etc.). If the usage of such entities is necessary for the wiki, can it be regulated by the translation or author rules?

Thanks in advance.

BTW in Opera (Linux) &emsp; looks like empty bar (with the border). 

20:14, 15 January 2011

I'm not sure what we can do about this. We make typographical guidelines, but I don't see any way that we can enforce them. I'll contact this particular author and see if I can persuade him/her to change the entries. I suspect that the pages in question are being prepared in some html writer and pasted in, but again, I can't actually stop that. All suggestions for dealing with this sort of problem would be gratefully received.

09:49, 16 January 2011
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