Talk:Translation Workflow

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If you find pages with any of the problems discussed here, please amend the English page. If you are not able to do that, leave a message for the admin team.


Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Question marks in page names306:45, 23 May 2011
Category KDE3309:14, 27 April 2011
How far back to translate?309:36, 8 February 2011
Problems with redirected pages910:22, 16 January 2011
Unusual formatting on K3b page109:49, 16 January 2011
Category Translations015:01, 8 January 2011
Cannot translate anything new112:27, 24 December 2010
Links in Category pages should be translated309:26, 6 December 2010
Breadcrumbs320:26, 28 October 2010
Wish about Translation plugin 118:35, 27 October 2010
Selecting a tab210:33, 3 October 2010
Language-selector under Toolbox in sidebar616:06, 2 October 2010
Corner-case markup114:33, 1 October 2010
Summary: Links to application pages019:52, 30 September 2010
Summary: Categories019:19, 30 September 2010
Summary: Page re-directs cause problems with links in translated pages018:55, 30 September 2010
Summary: Problem with links to subsections018:34, 30 September 2010
Summary: Using Smileys018:24, 30 September 2010
Quoting source code016:21, 30 September 2010
Summary of Marking for updates causes strange corruptions016:14, 30 September 2010
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Question marks in page names

When translating the page Kdevelop4/Manual/What is KDevelop? I encountered a problem with the name of the .po file: Downloading the page gave me a file whoes name had been truncated at the question mark, i.e. the downloaded file was named "page|KDevelop4/Manual/What is KDevelop" with "?_da.po" having been thrown away. Now, this is easily remedied; however, uploading the file after translation turned out to be difficult. When I tried to upload it to Special:ImportTranslations the name was again truncated, and this time I couldn't just add the missing postfix - the relevant field is not editable.

It seems, that this is a Firefox problem. At least I managed to upload the .po file without problems using Konqueror. However, with many distros using Firefox as their standard browser, this may cause problems.

Is it possible to remove punctuation signs from the names of .po files or must they match the page name exactly? And if they must, should we avoid punctuation in page names?

09:33, 20 May 2011

I think this may have to wait until the sprint, when we can discuss it with Nikerabbit.

18:07, 21 May 2011

There is no hurry. I know only of this one example. Do you know if many translators download the po-files? If so, it might be a good idea for me to temporarily add a warning to the English page. Ideally it would of course be better to have such text in the Talk page, but I don't think it will be much help there - most likely, translators won't think to consult the Talk page for such information.

07:26, 22 May 2011

Nikerabbit says that the question mark shouldn't be a problem, so we will need to look at that, at the sprint.

06:45, 23 May 2011

Category KDE3

Recently the {{KDE3}} template was modified to include code, that automatically adds [[Category:KDE3]] to the page. This has two consequences that may have been unintentional:

First, the {{KDE3}} template is used on some pages that was not previously in the KDE3 category, for example to mark a section that refers specifically to KDE3 in a page about a KDE 4 application.

The other thing is that previously each language had its own version of the KDE3 category (KDE3/da, KDE3/de and so on). With the new system all the translated pages will end up in the same KDE3 category.

09:38, 24 April 2011

The first doesn't worry me at all. If there is KDE 3 content on a page, it should be in that category, to draw my attention to the fact that it will eventually need editing out. That's the whole purpose of the category - to enable us to find material that needs deleting or editing, when the time is appropriate.

Actually, I'm not sure that the second one matters either, as the KDE3 category is a hidden category, intended for administrative use only. It probably doesn't help to have localised versions of that. When the English page gets edited the translators will automatically get the changes in the normal way.

10:36, 24 April 2011

Perhaps we should start removing [[Category:KDE3]] markup as we come across them. (We would first need to make sure, that those pages have the {{KDE3}} somewhere). Or do those explicit category markups still serve a purpose?

19:40, 25 April 2011

The template was intended from the start to put those pages into the category, but it didn't work. Now it does work we should remove the manual ones as we come across them, but they do no harm if they are around for a while. They don't cause the page to appear twice, for instance.

09:14, 27 April 2011

How far back to translate?

It is suggested that versions of pages such as the Plasma/FAQ earlier than KDE 4.4 are probably not worth translating - since few people will still be using them. Thoughts?

15:03, 7 February 2011


16:00, 7 February 2011

It makes good sense. However, in that case I think we should remove links to them and either remove them completely or only link to them through a page of old and unmaintained pages.

05:54, 8 February 2011

We are experimenting with the possibility of using an Archive namespace, but ran into a problem. Hopefully this will be possible soon. If it's not fixed before then we should tackle it at the WebWorld2011 sprint.

09:36, 8 February 2011

Problems with redirected pages

Page redirection does not work with the translation system! See for example the first two links in Plasma#Further information: Plasma/FAQ redirects to Plasma/FAQ/4.4. However, for the Special:myLanguage 'trick' to work we would need a Plasma/FAQ/da redirect to Plasma/FAQ/4.4/da and so on for each translation. (I assume this would work.)

This kind of solution does not seem to be maintainable. I don't see any solution to this problem that is both maintainable and elegant, so I propose a simple, maintainable but not very elegant solution:

Create an actual Plasma/FAQ page containing only links to the various versions of the FAQ. That way, when a new version of the FAQ is created, we just add a link to it here. Of course this link page should be translated. (Perhaps it would be easier to create a new Plasma/FAQ/Index page and change all links to Plasma/FAQ to this page?)

10:11, 23 December 2010

Do you have time to do a similar job on KAddressBook please?

16:17, 12 January 2011

I'll have a look at it.

05:50, 13 January 2011

The deed is done. I created KAddressBook/index with the links.

I have also changed alle the links to KAddressBook that I could find to this page. That was a bit hit and miss, though. Special:WhatLinksHere gave no usefull information and the search box just took me to the page KAddressBook_4.4, so I manually went through the pages I could think of (Applications/Office as well as KOrganizer and its subpages and links found in these). It is likely that I didn't find all links.

In the process of doing this I came across a problem in the page Akonadi 4.4/Troubleshooting. It contained many multiline input and output displays that didn't show properly: only the first line of the display was put in the box, the rest appeared below as ordinary lines. The problem was caused by preceeding the templates with one or more colons for indentation. I removed the colons, so the page displays properly now.

20:37, 13 January 2011

Thanks. I've seen the work and marked it as ready for translation. The problem with the multiple colons is known. Apparently when the system has to translate the wiki markup into html for display it hits this problem. Our solution is to add some indent to the style for bullets, and where more is needed a single colon can be added. Any instances of more than one colon should be cut down to a single one if really necessary, just as you have done, whenever we come across them.

Thanks for the work

14:05, 14 January 2011

The problem I was talking about is related but distinct. It concerns the Input and Output templates. With those there can't even be a single colon, since then lines other than the first end up outside of the box. If you write

{{Input|1=1. line
2. line}}

you get

1. line
2. line

but precede it with a single colon like this

:{{Input|1=1. line
2. line}}

and you get

1. line

2. line

08:25, 15 January 2011

Unusual formatting on K3b page

It seems that some authors prefer to format the pages as they like, using some entities (like  , —, etc.). If the usage of such entities is necessary for the wiki, can it be regulated by the translation or author rules?

Thanks in advance.

BTW in Opera (Linux)   looks like empty bar (with the border). 

20:14, 15 January 2011

I'm not sure what we can do about this. We make typographical guidelines, but I don't see any way that we can enforce them. I'll contact this particular author and see if I can persuade him/her to change the entries. I suspect that the pages in question are being prepared in some html writer and pasted in, but again, I can't actually stop that. All suggestions for dealing with this sort of problem would be gratefully received.

09:49, 16 January 2011

Category Translations

A recurring problem is that translators add the language code to the English category name, instead of using a completely localised name. We have some agreed names for most categories in most languages, linked from Translation_Help_Needed. If the category you need doesn't have a localised entry there, please add one.

When you add the new category name in place of the English one, you may get a red-link. Visiting the English equivalent page, you will see a one- or two-sentence description of what the category contains. Please add a similar description to your language category page. Thanks.

At some point we will need to clean up all the pages that have been wrongly categorised, to make them more useful to readers.

15:01, 8 January 2011

Cannot translate anything new

For the unknown reason, I cannot translate new messages from Ukrainian page. When I click on the translation links Opera and Firefox show the window with empty source field. I have tried to input the blind translation, but it only shows "Unknown error: ``tpt-unknown-page (unknownerror)".

Any hint will be much appreciated.

18:29, 23 December 2010

UserBase has moved to a new server, and in the process one link requiring change was overlooked. Sorry for the inconvenience, but you should have no further problem now.

12:27, 24 December 2010

Links in Category pages should be translated

Not sure if this is the right place to "complain" about this, but here is my problem: In the Category pages (for instance, shouldn't the link be translated ?

For instance the link Applications/Office/fr should be Applications/Bureautique (using the Page_display_title translation).

15:13, 3 December 2010

I'm not sure that that's possible at the moment. The best thing is to catch Nikerabbit on IRC and ask him about this. He's the author of Translate, and he may be prepared to put it on his to-do list :-)

10:20, 5 December 2010

I'm aware of it, but it's not an easy thing to solve.

10:23, 5 December 2010

I'm sure it isn't ;]

I just wanted to know if someone had knowledge of it.

Thanks :]

09:26, 6 December 2010


I noticed, that we now have breadcrumbs - great news! Unfortunately, they don't work well with translated pages. The page A/B/C will have a breadcrumb something like this [[A|A]] < [[A/B|B]] < C. The Danish version af the page is A/B/C/da, which will generate this breadcrumb: [[A|A]] < [[A/B|B]] < [[A/B/C|C]] < da which has two problems. First, the trailing da should not be there, nor the link to A/B/C (admittedly this is a minor complaint), and secondly, the links to A and A/B go to the English pages, where they should go to the translated pages A/da and A/B/da.

I can't see how this is implemented, but if it uses ordinary wiki syntax, I guess adding Special:myLanguage to all links would solve the second problem.

16:21, 27 October 2010

The breadcrumbs are actually built in to Mediawiki, and automatically generated. I will mention it to the Translate developers, to see whether they have any ideas, but there's nothing we can do in terms of mediawiki syntax.

18:24, 27 October 2010

I'm told that changes need to be made at code level. We have a "volunteer" that says he will try for it when he gets home in a few days. (For "volunteer" read "press-ganged volunteer" :-D )

18:33, 27 October 2010

That's great. If he needs a good illustration of the problem, a page like Amarok/QuickStartGuide/GettingStarted/da should do the trick. If feedback is wanted, I'd be happy to oblige.

20:26, 28 October 2010

Wish about Translation plugin

I add zh-tw zh-cn to assistant languages option, so when I open enhanced translation editor, the editor has two kinds of translation suggestions, the first one come from zh-tw page (Traditional Chinese) if the zh-tw page's translation is completed, the other come from Google Translation (Simplified Chinese).

I hope the suggestion which come from zh-tw page can be converted to Simplified Chinese via Google Translation service and vice versa. It will save my time in dealing with two kinds of Chinese.

zh-cn == Chinese(China) == Simplified Chinese, I hope the suggestions from zh-tw page is converted to Traditional Chinese

zh-tw == Chinese(Taiwan) == Traditional Chinese, I hope the suggestions from zh-cn page is converted to Simplified Chinese

Is it possible?

14:09, 13 October 2010

It is possible to do many things to solve this problem. I currently don't have time to implement them though. Some bright guy might be able to make a JavaScript gadget that does that.

18:35, 27 October 2010

Selecting a tab

When you describe an action that requires choosing a tab - is it correct to mark that as a menuchoice>

13:57, 2 October 2010

I think so. I feel that it is most logical to treat all named GUI element the same way. To most users buttons, icons, tabs and other elements that are directly visible are probably used more often than menu choices, so it seems they deserves to be highlighted as much as menu choices.

19:12, 2 October 2010

Yes, my instinct says that if it is a choice action it should be marked as a menuchoice. If anyone can think of a case where it causes a problem, this is the place to tell us :-)

10:33, 3 October 2010

Language-selector under Toolbox in sidebar

Please add Chinese(China) zh-cn and Chinese(Taiwan) zh-tw, thanks.

07:22, 1 October 2010

If you put zh-cn into the selector bar on the Translation Tool page you'll be taken to and similarly, putting zh-tw in, will take you to

I think it's just the unfamiliarity of the system. Let us know, though, if you can't find your way around.

For consistency, please make your category links in the form category-name/zh-cn- thanks.

19:10, 1 October 2010

They are different, I want to change userbase's interface language, look at this snapshot

The chinese category links have a lot of work need to do, I will modify chinese category link name when I have free time.

03:40, 2 October 2010

Ah - I thought you meant to the Translate language options. The interface settings are done from your Preferences screen, where zh-CN and zh-TW can be set. You can change them as often as you need to, it won't cause any problems.

If that still leaves you with things that need changing in the system messages I'll get someone with root access to join this thread.

06:20, 2 October 2010

Change Preference need an account and login in, but some visitors (guest) don't have (especially the person who visits this site first time).

another method is add this function to Translation Extension, for example, the extension not only redirect browser to /zh-cn page, but also change wiki' interface language(system messages) to zh-CN.

07:08, 2 October 2010

"Your wish is my command!" as the stories say. Pipesmoker has fixed it so that all languages are now available (if your browser is open from before the fix you will need to reload to see it).

13:17, 2 October 2010

haha, thanks

16:06, 2 October 2010

Corner-case markup

The how-to pages linked from Tasks and Tools set out the basic markup for most cases. However, there are a number of situations where the preferred markup is not clear. Before I can clarify those cases I need guidance from the translators. We can add examples to this thread until we are sufficiently clear to update the how-to pages. The first example I'd like you to consider is this section:

<example 1> Konqueror is primarily a web interface, but it can also function as a traditional file manager. If this is your preference, in System Settings, go to the Advanced tab and click on File Associations. In the list of Known Types, go to the inode/directory type. In the General tab at the right side of the window, select Konqueror in the Application Preference Order and click on the Up button until it is at the top. Click on Apply to save the changes. </example>

Please indicate how you would like this to be marked. If we can look at a few such cases we should be able to formulate useful guidance.

19:29, 30 September 2010

<example 1> Konqueror is primarily a web interface, but it can also function as a traditional file manager. If this is your preference, in System Settings, go to the Advanced tab and click on File Associations. In the list of Known Types, go to the inode/directory type. In the General tab at the right side of the window, select Konqueror in the Application Preference Order and click on the Up button until it is at the top. Click on Apply to save the changes. </example>

Actually I would recommend a few changes to the original text:

  • It is generally a bad idea to use names of GUI elements as anything other than names, så I would suggest replacing "In the list of Known Types,..." with "In the Known Types list ...".
  • I think inode -> directory is better than inode/directory; the latter is potentially confusing since it does not match one named GUI element.
  • I think "If this is your preference go to System Settings -> Advanced -> File Associations is a simpler and better way to present a sequence of GUI actions.
14:17, 1 October 2010

Summary: Links to application pages

<quote>I don't need to translate the application names, but what about those languages that have a non-latin alphabet?</quote>

After much experimentation it has been decided that markup that excludes elements from translation should be avoided whenever possible. That relies entirely on the experience of the translator to know what needs translation, but additional guidance can be written into [[EditMarkup|Prepare a page for translation]] where necessary.

With regard to links, it has been agreed that [[Special:myLanguage/Ark|<translate>Ark</translate>]] is the format that will be used for stand-alone links, such as the application-names in /Applications. To accommodate the different grammar needs, when the link occurs in a sentence the whole link should be left as within the translatable message.

18:42, 30 September 2010

Summary: Categories

There is a list of current categories and a set of pages where agreed translation of those categories can be found, linked from Translation_Help_Needed

As a general principle:

  • The UserBase page for the application should have its traditional category (manual writers can add the application category if they wish).
  • Tutorials, FAQ's etc should also have the traditional categories (again, the application category can be added).
  • Pages that are part of the manual should only have the application category.
  • The application category may also be used for any application that has many subpages.

New categories should only be considered if no existing one can be applied. If a new category is essential it must be added to all the translation tables listed on Translation_Help_Needed. Application-name categories may be omitted from those tables, as they will only be translated for non-latin alphabet languages. The translator is expected to know the official glyphs for the name translation.

19:19, 30 September 2010

Summary: Page re-directs cause problems with links in translated pages

KAddressBook and Plasma/FAQ are examples of pages where they are simply a re-direct to the latest version of the application. The problem arises if the text on one of those versioned pages contains something like [[KAddressBook/Enabling_Resources]]. There is no such section, because it's on the versioned page.

The solution is that the part that the reader sees can be trimmed for readability but the link must specify the version page.

18:55, 30 September 2010

Summary: Problem with links to subsections

Special:myLanguage finds the correct page, but then looks for a subsection with the English title, which of course it fails to find. Siebrand offers this workaround:

This will work if you add anchor points to your pages that cannot be translated. For example, add to the source text to allow anchors to always work. I experimented with this a while ago. The exact implementation may differ from what I write here, but I'm certain it's close. siebrand 08:44, 23 August 2010

This is working on a number of pages, so appears to be the correct solution for us.

18:34, 30 September 2010

Summary: Using Smileys

ASCII smilies cause problems for translators, because the system reports unbalanced parentheses. Instead, please us icons such as [[Image:face-smile.png]] Face-smile.png. Keeping the size below 15px constrains it vertically so that the text line isn't distorted.

Additionally, UserBase is linked to InstantCommons where you can search for other smilies or other images. You do not need any special addressing - they act as though they are uploaded onto our server.

18:24, 30 September 2010

Quoting source code

Templates are used for Input code and for Output code. In addition, syntax highlighting and the inclusion of line numbers is now possible. For details see

16:21, 30 September 2010

Summary of Marking for updates causes strange corruptions

There was a good deal of confusion caused when an English page was accidentally translated and had to be rolled back. When that was marked as ready for translation again, the language statistics appeared to be incorrect - and in fact the two sets of statistics did not agree. Nikerabbit explains this: <quote> Few notes that hopefully help to clarify things: Special:LanguageStats: if group is 100% translated, the default task is 'review all changes' (definition pink + translation green) instead of 'show untranslated' (untranslated blue, outdated pink). If this is confusing we should discuss how to make it less confusing.

If the one who marks page for translation chooses to not invalidate translations, those translation should never show up in the view of untranslated messages, nor affect translation percentages. The only difference is that if you somehow go and edit one of those, you will see a difference between the old and new definition like you see for other invalidated translations.

Nikerabbit11:16, 8 August 2010</end quote>

16:14, 30 September 2010
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