|Thread title||Replies||Last modified|
|Long page names, and docbook needs||2||18:23, 2 November 2011|
|New facility for Team Leaders||0||18:25, 30 October 2011|
|Amarok Manual||6||15:31, 24 September 2011|
|KMail/Security||0||09:57, 17 July 2011|
|The ToolBox page||5||08:32, 15 June 2011|
|WebWorld 2011||1||04:30, 7 June 2011|
|Recent edit of KonsoleDevelpment||3||10:28, 16 February 2011|
|Obsolete pages?||2||20:37, 21 January 2011|
|Discussion input needed||0||14:13, 13 December 2010|
|Localised Screenshots||1||20:31, 23 October 2010|
|Загальні проблеми у KDE||1||15:33, 11 October 2010|
|The Dolphin edit||0||11:56, 6 October 2010|
|Plasma/FAQ||9||20:33, 30 September 2010|
|Amarok pages||1||12:14, 26 September 2010|
|"Chatty" pages - hard to mark up||3||12:31, 23 September 2010|
|Chihuahua||0||13:56, 6 September 2010|
|UserBase problem discussion||0||17:49, 28 June 2010|
|Russian Translator||0||17:46, 28 June 2010|
I'm working through the pages available in the Kdenlive Manual, and trying to comply with the page and section markup that helps docbook. I've come across this problem where the Index page shows "Kdenlive on other Desktops and Operating Systems" and it is currently linked to Kdenlive/Manual/KdenliveOnOtherPlatforms. Clearly if a change is needed, now is the time to do it, but I'm not too happy about very long page names. What would be your recommendation in a case like this?
In this case there will be enough to add the anchor
<span id="Kdenlive on other Desktops and Operating Systems">
The general concern is that links should refer to Kdenlive/Manual/KdenliveOnOtherPlatforms#Kdenlive on other Desktops and Operating Systems
This method can be used to avoid renaming Amarok pages.
I know Claus has been talking to you about various such concerns, and that he is building it into Draft:The KDE Documentation Primer. I'm picking up bits as I go along, and when your conversations are finished we should have the ability to generate DocBooks without too much effort - the aim is to have them at the point where they compile every time without needing extra work. Please carry on working with Claus on this, and meanwhile, make any changes you need. I'll learn the needs as quickly as I can
With today's update of the Translate extension, we have two new options in the "I want to" combibox -
Review all translated messages in... and Accept translations in.
These should be useful when you are checking on the work of new and relatively unknown translators. They are only available to translation Team Leaders, at least for now.
Regarding the latest edit of Amarok/Manual/AmarokWindow/PlaylistPane:
Could you please explain what the problem with the recent changes to the Amarok pags was. It is a problematic page, and we need to do something about the placing of images. Anne and I have been trying to make things look decent with little success. The latest attempt using a table is the only thing that has even come close to solving anything.
I agree, of course, that docbook conversion has top priority. Does that mean that we can't use tables for this kind of thing? Perhaps we simply need to force all images to be centered between sections? (That would make this page look very odd.) Any ideas would be much appreciated.
Sorry for not explaining this earlier.
The script is trying to build bijection between two markups. To be clear, the problems with your last edits are as follows
Surely these problems can be fixed by improving the script. Any help will be appreciated. Instructions can be found here.
P.S. Docbook syntax does not allow using images in captions to images. Please avoid using images templates in the captions. Thanks.
Thanks, this is helpful.
How does KDE docbook handle tables? Is it possible to give some hint of what the column width should be? Could we make, say, 4 colums and then merge 3 of the (an ugly kludge, off course, but if it works...). Or should we avoid tables all together?
Q: Is it possible to give some hint of what the column width should be? A: No, it will be chosen automatically to fit the width. Images will not be scaled down (will be shown as is (100%)).
Q: Could we make, say, 4 colums and then merge 3 of the (an ugly kludge, off course, but if it works...)? A: You could, but the script in its current form does not parse this. Just for the reference the code in docbook for
|Jumping around in code|
|Ctrl+Alt+O||Quick open file: enter part of a filename and select among all the files in the current session's projects' directory trees that match the string; the file will then be opened|
<informaltable> <tgroup cols="2"> <colspec colname="c1"/> <colspec colname="c2"/> <thead> <row> <entry namest="c1" nameend="c2">Jumping around in code</entry> </row> </thead> <tbody> <row> <entry><keycombo>&Ctrl;&Alt;<keycap>O</keycap></keycombo></entry> <entry>Quick open file: enter part of a filename and select among all the files in the current session's projects' directory trees that match the string; the file will then be opened</entry> </row> </tbody> </tgroup> </informaltable>
The problem is in smart parsing for the number of columns to be merged. I have to do it manually for KDevelop manual conversion.
Q: Or should we avoid tables all together? A: No. Generic tables are parsed well. Screenshot
The table width doesn't seem to be as big an issue as I thought. At least when the uploaded images have a sensible size, tables seem to adjust to them nicely.
I tried one more time to make a table to solve the problem, but in a test page User:Claus_chr/Test. Would this work? (apart from the <br /> problem - I havent found out what to do about that yet.)
Update: As a matter of fact I don't need the br tags at all - I just misread the wikimedia docs.
PS. Anne and I was wondering about your comment about images in captions. As far as we know there never was an image in any caption. What are we missing here?
Q: Would this work? A: No. See 1. Can you keep the pipe ("| ") in one unit with the rest of the cell? If you do, then modified script can give something like this.
P.S. I should concentrate on my report now. Can we discuss the rest later? Thanks for your answer.
I wasn't aware of that page at all until yesterday, when I was checking for subpages not translatable. I imagine that it was originally copied from TechBase, and probably by me. Pity I didn't realise that there was no value whatsoever, as I spent a lot of time preparing it :-) Anyway, it is now moved to the Archive namespace and removed from the Translate system. Thanks for the heads-up.
The translations of the ToolBox page are seriously out of date, and I don't think we can get them back in sync with the English page - it was at one time removed from the translation system and then reinstated much later, so now it thinks, that the existing translations are OK even though they are not.
Anne and I agreed that it is best simply to delete the existing translations. We'll wait a bit though, to give you time to rescue your work. Some of it can be reused.
From the page history it seems that your translation is quite recent, but still as far as I can see a translation of a fairly old version. Maybe the old translation units has been kept even after the English page was removed from translation?
It seems that is possible to "repair" this. See User_talk:Caig#The_ToolBox_page_1211. I'll wait a bit longer, if you want to try it out.
This is not the only affected page (I cannot find the others now, but I am sure). Well, I I will repair translation little by little then.
Hi Yurchor I'm sorry you couldn't make it to Essen - we had a lot of fun and we missed you. I thought I would just give you a brief summary of what we did with UserBase.
You have probably already noticed our new logo, and the addition of help items to the sidebar.
Besides the sidebar, Pipesmoker also made a lot of tweaks to formatting. We no longer have the sudden break in background color below the sidebar; it has been replaced by a nice transition. And the <tt> and <code> tags have been made useful for us. He also improved the nested lists. We added something about this in the help pages.
On the translation side Nikerabbit did great work on several longstanding problems and some new ones that came up:
When Anne, Hans and I were not busy putting others to work or otherwise pestering them we found time to do a lot of cleanup . For example we have removed a lot of dead pages and redirects, that are no longer needed. We spent quite some time cleaning up the help pages, adding new content, removing obsolete things and moving some things to new places. Among other things we added a bit about the format of dates that should make them completely unambiguous. We also made a new template for putting UI icons in text and described it in the help files.
We had discussions about how to attract more contributions. Hans had some interesting ideas involving the forums. They are not implemented yet, but could potentially be a great way to attract new writers. And toma had ideas about making a link between KHelpCenter and UserBase, that would allow users to add tips at the click of a mouse. We also had discussions of a complete redesign of the front page to make it more welcoming to contributors and easier to navigate for newcomers. This is something that probably will not happen until the new design for kde.org is in place.
We also talked about dockbook. Some projects wants to add old manual to UserBase and use it as a base for a new manual written in UserBase. It is painful to do by hand, so some kind of automated solution should be found. We can already transfer documents the other way as well as to pdf - even letting users pick and choose which parts they wants to include.
The most controversial issue came up at the very end. Toma and neverendingo advocated a much more open approach to translations - trusting the wisdom of the crowd is after all the idea of a wiki. Anne and I were not quite convinced. In theory we agree, but for many languages we are dealing with crowds of one. We might end up moving towards more openness, but we feel that caution is called for. Nothing has been decided on this matter yet.
This is as far as my notes go - I'm sure I have forgotten something. I hope you find this helpful.
I don't understand your comment. Surely, KonsoleDevelopment is the original page - or am I missing something?
Consider the following situation:
1) User read the instruction and want to follow it. 2) He clicks the link and opens localized page (with Special:myLanguage). 3) He notice that the missing new "Bla-bla" section of Configuration.
Question: How to add the description of "Bla-bla" on localized page? Answer: The section should be added to the original page.
So what is the point to send the user to the localized page, right?
I get your point. However, a user who knows enough to make additions to a page probably also knows how to navigate to the original page. On the other hand, a more casual user who perhaps doesn't even speak English might still be able to provide valuable suggestions on the Talk page.
I don't think that leaving out Special:myLanguage is going to be a problem to anyone - navigating to the translation of choice is easy enough; but I wonder if it is not a good idea to remain consistent even in special cases like this.
I think the pages in this list pre-date the current translation system. Should they be deleted?
Інструменти Вступ до KDE Глосарій Для чого призначено KDE Ласкаво просимо до бази даних користувачів KDE Освітні програми Отримання довідки Пошук програм Програми Програми/Ігри Програми/Інтернет Програми/Доступність Програми/Мультимедійні програми Програми/Офісні Програми/Розробка Програми/Система Робота з графікою і зображеннями Стільниця Таблиця еквівалентних програм Як задавати питання
Hi. Could you please read and comment on http://userbase.kde.org/Talk:Kontact_Mobile#Rename_page_to_Kontact_Touch._684
Zinchenko has the idea that by using .svg files from Inkscape it should be possible to make them language agnostic, so that translators could simply add applicable texts to the image. I have no idea whether this would work, or even whether it would be less work than creating a new screenshot. Would you mind talking to him about this? Thanks.
(By the way - have you noticed that it is now possible to translate the page title within the normal translation system?)
This is the only remaining link to "General KDE Problems" - which is now just a re-direct. Am I safe in assuming that this is an obsolete page that can be deleted? All the information that was on that page and is still relevant has been moved onto other pages.
Plasma/FAQ is a redirect which always points to the latest version, so it's best not to use the link with the version number.
Sure. So, what to do if user is on 4.4 (4.3, 4.5 soon (hey, Plasma developers, where are you?), etc.) and wants to be instructed how to add a widget on his panel? ;)
On every Plasma/FAQ/whatever page there is an info box directing to the earlier versions :-)
Yes, really. 4.4 says For older versions you can turn to the KDE 4.3 specific page, theKDE 4.2 specific page, the KDE 4.1 specific page or the KDE 4.0 one
4.3 says For older versions you can turn to the KDE 4.2 specific page, KDE 4.1 specific page or the KDE 4.0 one
and so on. And they are all links.
The only page with these links is Plasma/FAQ. Aliasing of Plasma/FAQ with Plasma/FAQ/4.4 (4.3, 4.5, etc.) breaks all links on the translated versions (via Special:myLanguage). Subpages, like Plasma/FAQ/4.4/Configuration, have no aliases at all.
What is the solution for linking if we not use "/4.x/" in links? ;)
I'm not sure that I'm understanding the problem but while looking at it, I did note that the Plasma/FAQ/4.4 (which is what the user is actually reading) didn't have Special:myLanguage at all, so I've fixed that.
Plasma/FAQ itself only contains the redirect to the latest version, and the redirect has to be changed when a new version is made. Apart from that, all the links have /4.x in them. I would have thought that between that and the myLanguage thing it would work. If it doesn't, can you explain a bit more about what actually happens? Thanks
Consider the following examples: 1. Plasma/FAQ#How does Plasma work? links to the English page.
Special:MyLanguage/Plasma/FAQ#How does Plasma work? in any locale you will also be linked to the English page (broken localized links).
2. Plasma/FAQ/4.4/Configuration is valid page that can be linked, e.g. Plasma/FAQ/4.4/Configuration#Can_I_move_the_applets_on_the_panel.3F
On the other hand
Plasma/FAQ/Configuration#Can_I_move_the_applets_on_the_panel.3F points to nowhere (broken subpages).
Plasma/FAQ has only one purpose - to direct anyone searching to the latest version. It doesn't have any content, any sections, any subpages, so I'm surprised that even your first example works. I wouldn't have expected any links to be formulated against Plasma/FAQ at all - but against the versioned links (after all, the reader doesn't actually see that part of the link anyway). Now at last I understand where we started from :-) Yes, you are correct, I made a mistake there. Sorry about that, but I really did need to understand what you were pointing out.
I did not do the original markup and I'd never looked at these pages. It looks as though they were done at the time that Siebrand thought we should tie down the translation to the nth degree. I've edited Amarok/QuickStartGuide, which should fix both your problem with images and my problem with section editing not working. Please let me know asap if it's now OK - if so I'll carry on with the others. If you want any other changes, I can do those at the same time.
Some pages have a chatty style that is difficult to mark up. Sometimes I am marking features as menuchoices, when they are not exactly so. I don't know whether this is the best approach, or not, so I'd appreciate advice. Examples of such are the KOffice pages, KWord, KSpread, KPresenter etc..
imho, these pages are by no means documentation, rather advertisement pages. Hence, there is no sense to use the same markup. Much more easily to use common wiki markup (quotes for emphasis, bold, etc.) for these pages.
OK, I'll go through the KOffice pages and change those. If you meet similar inappropriate stuff, please change them and accept my apologies for the extra work.
Your description "rather advertisement pages" is, of course, exactly what they were in the first place, when UserBase was conceived as a showcase for apps, rather than as a place for documentation.
A discussion which started from the same place: Talk:Translation_Workflow#Use_of_menuchoice_tag_421. I'd like your input, please.
We are close to moving UserBase to the new Chihuahua theme. There are some big advantages with Chihuahua, not the least being the ability to adapt to screen space, both large screens and small, hand-held ones. Much of the work I've been doing lately has been to prepare pages for the switch. As always, with something new, there are likely to be issues that we are not aware of until it is in more general use, so I'm approaching all who have made significant contribution in the last seven days, asking for help.
I'd like you to change your User Preferences to use Chihuahua, as soon as possible. The plan at the moment is that if at the end of this week we have no show-stopper issues we will make Chihuahua the default theme for UserBase, probably next weekend.
There is a public Etherpad at http://webteam.notes.kde.jefferai.org/14? - please add any notes, comments, issues there. It's also helpful if you say "Hi" in the chat window, because that ties a comment colour to your name, so I know who to approach if more discussion is needed.
Thanks for the help.
Siebrand fixed markup on Applications/ and similar catalogue pages. They are now correct, but have caused a lot of work. I think it's avoidable, and doesn't pay off enough. Could you please join the discussion on http://userbase.kde.org/Talk:Translation_Workflow where I'm just about to add my reasoning. Your perspective would be valuable.